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Politics Free For A Month?
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cybele
cybele
736 posts

Politics Free For A Month?

Have we been completely free of discussing Politics for over a month?

Hmmm. . .that's a sign.

Cybele

Jun 16, 2009, 03:22


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Mars Rover
Mars Rover
1337 posts

Re: Politics Free For A Month?

cybele wrote:
Have we been completely free of discussing Politics for over a month?

Hmmm. . .that's a sign.

Cybele


i've talked about politics plenty in the last month.

just not here.

Jun 16, 2009, 06:14


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Mars Rover
Mars Rover
1337 posts

and

what would you like to discuss?

Obama is talking about reforming health care, i think something big is gonna happen in regards to that this summer some time.

Jun 16, 2009, 06:49


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cybele
cybele
736 posts

Re: and

It scares the hell out of me. I want to have the ability to buy my health insurance the way I buy car insurance. I don't want my employer involved and I certainly do not want the government involved. They've got enough on their plate running car companies, banks, and managing real estate.

Cybele

Jun 16, 2009, 16:56


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Mars Rover
Mars Rover
1337 posts

Re: and

cybele wrote:
It scares the hell out of me. I want to have the ability to buy my health insurance the way I buy car insurance. I don't want my employer involved and I certainly do not want the government involved. They've got enough on their plate running car companies, banks, and managing real estate.

Cybele


i think you'll still be able to buy your own insurance. what ever happens will only change how the rest of us without insurance will be able to participate with the rest of western civilization.

Jun 16, 2009, 19:23


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cybele
cybele
736 posts

Re: and

Yes, such great socialized medical systems they have in Canada and the UK. I've heard nothing but great things about it.

Cybele

Jun 16, 2009, 19:39


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Labhead
Labhead
1868 posts

Re: health care

cybele wrote:
It scares the hell out of me. I want to have the ability to buy my health insurance the way I buy car insurance. I don't want my employer involved and I certainly do not want the government involved. They've got enough on their plate running car companies, banks, and managing real estate.

Cybele


I think every argument I've heard against it has turned out to be bogus.

There was a lady at my work for a couple weeks doing some training, and we quizzed her on all the horror stories we had heard, and she looked puzzled and said it really isn't that bad at all. The difference between the US and Canada would be having to perhaps wait a month or so vs not being able to even afford the same surgery here, even perhaps with insurance (such as hip replacement).

Contrary to popular belief, we don't really have much competition yet in our health care industry. As a matter of fact, we have a system based on DENIAL of care. At least 25% goes to insurance company overhead to deny claims so they can profit. Obama is not taking away existing healthcare, and you can keep your doctor and/or existing plan that you may like already. But what will happen is that people will have a choice, and for the first time the insurance companies will have REAL competition, which is what the conservatives claim they want (but I suspect they just want Obama & the liberals to fail at anything, because anything good we do will make them look bad).

Every other industrialized nation has this, and it appears to work pretty well, at least better than nothing.

Where were the people who screamed socialism when we socialized other aspects of our society, such as the police force, schools, and firefighters? Firefighters actually were privatized originally (check out Martin Scorsese's Gangs of New York movie and you'll see some of this).

Jun 16, 2009, 20:38


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Labhead
Labhead
1868 posts

Re: health care

Labhead wrote:
cybele wrote:
It scares the hell out of me. I want to have the ability to buy my health insurance the way I buy car insurance. I don't want my employer involved and I certainly do not want the government involved. They've got enough on their plate running car companies, banks, and managing real estate.

Cybele


I think every argument I've heard against it has turned out to be bogus.

There was a lady at my work for a couple weeks doing some training, and we quizzed her on all the horror stories we had heard, and she looked puzzled and said it really isn't that bad at all. The difference between the US and Canada would be having to perhaps wait a month or so vs not being able to even afford the same surgery here, even perhaps with insurance (such as hip replacement).

Contrary to popular belief, we don't really have much competition yet in our health care industry. As a matter of fact, we have a system based on DENIAL of care. At least 25% goes to insurance company overhead to deny claims so they can profit. Obama is not taking away existing healthcare, and you can keep your doctor and/or existing plan that you may like already. But what will happen is that people will have a choice, and for the first time the insurance companies will have REAL competition, which is what the conservatives claim they want (but I suspect they just want Obama & the liberals to fail at anything, because anything good we do will make them look bad).

Every other industrialized nation has this, and it appears to work pretty well, at least better than nothing.

Where were the people who screamed socialism when we socialized other aspects of our society, such as the police force, schools, and firefighters? Firefighters actually were privatized originally (check out Martin Scorsese's Gangs of New York movie and you'll see some of this).


Oh yeah, also I heard that the insurance companies are allowed to collude on pricing, so don't pretend they have competition when they're all in on it together, via secret meetings.

Jun 16, 2009, 20:39


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cybele
cybele
736 posts

Re: health care

What a tired argument. . .

That the police force, firefighters, and the starving children that will all die if I don't at least half-embrace the necessity of Socialism and celebrate its half-success. More like zero success. Our schools are a fucking joke. Our bridges are crumbling, our roads are like the surface of the moon, and our corrupt politicians are at the healm.

This isn't because I don't pay ENOUGH in taxes - it's because they STEAL and WASTE my taxes in the way that no competitive, successful business or priviate industry can. The amount of waste and grift is staggering.

Locally, in Chicago, we're taxing ourselves into oblivion. Talent and businesses are leaving the state in droves. We're turning into Detroit while our indicted politicians make TV appearances and fly on private jets.

Federally, our debt has increased to the point of zero return. Like Germany before WWII, we should start printing money on one side in order to get it out the door quick enough.

Nowhere in our constitution does it mention running railroad companies into the ground, owning mortgages, or limiting the school choice of my children to the point where they are taught by a bunch of illiterate criminals.

Enjoy paying for Social Security or would you rather invest it yourself? How well does Medicaid work? Like shit, but hey - let's give these crooks the entire healthcare system and see how that shakes out. . .

Cybele

Jun 16, 2009, 22:37


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Labhead
Labhead
1868 posts

Re: health care

cybele wrote:
What a tired argument. . .

That the police force, firefighters, and the starving children that will all die if I don't at least half-embrace the necessity of Socialism and celebrate its half-success. More like zero success. Our schools are a fucking joke. Our bridges are crumbling, our roads are like the surface of the moon, and our corrupt politicians are at the healm.

This isn't because I don't pay ENOUGH in taxes - it's because they STEAL and WASTE my taxes in the way that no competitive, successful business or priviate industry can. The amount of waste and grift is staggering.

Locally, in Chicago, we're taxing ourselves into oblivion. Talent and businesses are leaving the state in droves. We're turning into Detroit while our indicted politicians make TV appearances and fly on private jets.

Federally, our debt has increased to the point of zero return. Like Germany before WWII, we should start printing money on one side in order to get it out the door quick enough.

Nowhere in our constitution does it mention running railroad companies into the ground, owning mortgages, or limiting the school choice of my children to the point where they are taught by a bunch of illiterate criminals.

Enjoy paying for Social Security or would you rather invest it yourself? How well does Medicaid work? Like shit, but hey - let's give these crooks the entire healthcare system and see how that shakes out. . .

Cybele


I agree that the gov't needs major fixing, but on the flip side, I don't trust the private industry that is only out to make a quick buck. Bush made a big push to privatize the military, and we've seen what a joke that was, with the contractors not showing up with the soldier's food, providing tainted water and food, raping women and not being held accountable, billions of dollars unaccounted for, etc etc etc. One thing we do know is that our current health care system isn't working well, so I'm willing to try something different. The gov't run health care is working well enough for the soldiers and polititians, I want a piece of that action if I choose.

I think our major pillars of society (necessities of life) should be controlled by the gov't, AKA Socialism, and keep the rest at capitalism. We need to take the best ideas from all theories instead of 100% capitalism (which we've never had) or anything else to be successful. So far, Obama has 'socialized' somewhere around 1-5%, a very small amount. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Any time everything's been left to greed (capitalism), eventually nothing's left. We got into these problems primarily through de-regulation, so obviously the free market idea isn't working.

Fix the gov't, but don't get rid of it unless you think complete anarchy works (AKA libertarian).

Jun 16, 2009, 23:15

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