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Help Me Obi Wan Adobe!
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Re: Help Me Obi Wan Adobe!

revox wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
revox wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
revox wrote:

WRT Adobe - I have to agree 'bout the corporate part, don't personally give a rat's arse, but the ordinary programers are being laid off left right and centre, as usual management are not the first to suffer - it is the ordinary folk that are being milked then farmed off to Burger King. Consider the wider picture and consequences of your decision.

Well Revox, could you imagine a scenario where, during a time of lessening profits, (or even during normal times,) executives would decide to reduce their own salaries and bonuses, rather than lay off ordinary workers? Don't count on it.

It's so common in our society to blame the people on the bottom, who may be transgressing some rule of officialdom in a minor way out of desperation, rather than looking at the decisions of those at the top who impose the structural conditions which cause the problems in the first place.

When a certain tool becomes the industry-wide standard for participation in a particular field, is it really fair to charge such outrageous prices for those tools? When you do that, you're essentially barring entry to those fields to people who can't afford to pay those prices. It's a way of ensuring that certain career opportunities always go to the same class of people. I do not accept those circumstances. I do not think that I, or anyone else should be perpetually relegated to Burger King employee because I can't afford the ultra-expensive tools that would allow me to play the game.

I also feel that way about most media. If want to steal Avatar, go ahead, it already made billions, sieze your right to participate in the cultural conversation.

revox wrote:
Disagree. Y' see, I refuse to join the ranks of the scum, those that you believe are 'essentially barring entry to those fields to people who can't affort to pay those prices', and play their dishonest game - you aren't.

What you are also blind to is the fact that you have fallen for their spin and believe that theirs is the only option - when there is talent, any option is grasped, any tool is productive. If you are talented then you will find another tool without falling into the pits alongside those that you accuse here. You are justifying breaking laws that are meant to actually protect people and you are essentially descending to the level of the corporates.

If you are earningn money by using illegal software, and you are 'caught', trust me, they will royally shaft you - ignorant idiots that seriously seem to be lacking knowledge of the law are usually slapped on the wrist, business people aren't. You know this.

DevastatorJr wrote:

I don't believe in absolute morality, that ideal values exist independently from actual circumstances. To me, the justness of our actions depend entirely on our specific situation. Yes, certainly we must have laws, but when the laws which might once have been intended to "protect people" seem to be causing more harm than good, I must judge for myself whether or not to take the chance and break them. But ignorant idiot though I may be, it's certainly not the same thing as being one of the "scum," they are two completely different situations.

It's essentialy the old Jean Valjean question -- do you steal a loaf of bread in order to feed your family? Absolutely. There can be no direct comparrison of the morality of the haves vs. the have nots, particularly given the power differential between the two positions.

I realize that this may all seem like a justification, and I wouldn't have bothered, except that I thought it might be an intersting philosophical discussion and you do present a compelling arguement. But rest assured, I will do what I think is best for me.

The loaf of bread analogy is irrelevant, you are not starving on the street, there are social safety nets in place to prevent that happening in anyone's life.

Doing what you think is best for you is one thing, taking responsibility for it is another entirely - you are prepared to take the risk only now that you have paved a way for this perhaps being a philosophical discussion as opposed to an outright demonstration for your contempt of the law and an invitation to someone here to help you to break it. Clever, but no banana.

There are alternative tools, but you are such a puppet of corporate spin that you are unable to see or even consider them. I'm not sure if I ought to pity your ability to be manipulated so easily by 'the man' you claim to be so aware of, or be pissed with you because I actually pay for all of my software.

Don't think I'll do either.

I don't see where the manipulation enters into it. If anything, you are being manipulated into paying for something you need not pay for. I think that's what you really object to. It's a kind of jealousy that you feel bound by rules and obligations where others do not, and over something so minor, something that in real terms, does no harm to anyone at all,(since I don't have the $1400 to spend anyway, even if I wanted to, no one's losing anything.) Is it not possible that the violation of said intellectual property rights could make a real positive difference in someone's life? You'd rather I didn't, but hunger supercedes contempt.

I'll take responsibility, I fess up, I'm willing to be a minor criminal, there are far worse crimes perpetrated in this world.

We all decide to what degree we're willing to be exploited, and what we choose to exploit, I don't think any of us are free of that.

Well, you wouldn't see where manipulation enters into it, that is how cleverly you have been hook, line and sinkered.

You are giving me an option to take what is obviously a more destructive path by stealing something or being an idiot for not stealing something.

Very good, I can see it now, "Er sorry your honour, the guy left his front door open while he went to the can, what other option was there for me other than to go in and take his TV, he almost invited me in".

You are effectively saying that Adobe are making you into a criminal by making their product too expensive for you, you are saying that you do not have freedom of choice to investigate the other options available to you that will enable you to put a finger up at Adobe and take responsibility for whatever your craft is as an adult member of society - you have some fine words, what are your actions like?

Morals are for the blind, not the critical mind
Morals which don't even tackle the real issues
Moral which seek intervention and control
Morals which don't even tackle the real problems
Morals that just seek control over our lives
-- Nihilist Assault Group

Mar 22, 2010, 21:27


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