Forum
#Topics
+Start a topic
?Search __________________________________

-Log In
-Register
steal this book/movie/song.
Log In to post a reply
Pages: 7 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | Next ]

View: flat \ threaded
________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

mirtchevman
mirtchevman
1725 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

cyberpainter wrote:

Artists over the centuries have mostly been taken advantage of, so I guess file sharing is no different.


http://hypebeast.com/blog/kinfolk/2010/05/daft-punk/

May 14, 2010, 05:10


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5914 posts

Re: steal this book/movie/song.

mirtchevman wrote:
cyberpainter wrote:
mirtchevman wrote:
cyberpainter wrote:
Wow, that's pretty insulting to artists. Calling them adolescents, assuming they don't have some kind of job that might be doing some good... Belittling the hard work they might do. I haven't read the whole thread, I will later though.


oh, my statement about perpetual adolescence? it doesn't have to relate to every creative person, but in too many cases it does. you don't have to look to far to see examples...


That's a stupid stereotype.


please don't make me start creating a list...


No you shouldn't, considering the millions of artists in the world, according to your assessment I guess you'd be really busy.

May 14, 2010, 06:40


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

DevastatorJr.
DevastatorJr.
961 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

revox wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
Taking something I created and presenting it, unaltered, as your own, is plagarism. But I'd have no problem with you reading a comic I've drawn that someone's given you for free or creating fan fiction using some of my characters. Or if you wanted to do something of your own using a style or technique I came up with, it would be fine by me.

I'm of the opinion that no one can ever really bite your style, not if you're truly original. Jack Kerouac said, "Ideas come a dime a dozen, it's the approach that's important."



You appear to think that this is an honourable stance, indeed, with your own work - given that there are no publisher rights that you are unaware of - you may choose to be as benevolent as you like.

However, the issue that you have previously sidestepped, and are again thumbing your nose at, is that the rights to share files and use illegal software - the latter from which you earn a living - are not yours to freely imbue with your own sense of ethics.

Whatever the language you choose to dress this up in, plagiarism and theft are two sides of the same coin. You appear to have issue with plagiarism. You are a hypocrite.

Someone printing your work under another name and selling it in Thailand, for example, would probably earn a little bit of coin and there isn't a darn thing to be done about it. The sole benefit of this scenario to you is that you will be blissfully unaware of it; no one will be waving the proceeds from the sale of your work under your nose as they snigger at your impotence.

In this post, as you have done in another, you are making every contributor to this Forum aware of your disregard, disdain in fact, for the IP rights of others and yet, when it comes to your own rights, you are vehemently eloquent in your defence of them: in addition to being hypocritical, this is also immature.

~8^|>


I don't recall expressing any vehement defence of my own intellectual property rights as opposed to those of others, in fact, in the scenario you laid out, someone in some far off place pawning my work off as their own, frankly, I wouldn't really care. What I object to in plagarism is not the loss of profit, but the lack of originality. Everything with you is about money.

For me, the real issue isn't about one persons abstract notion of honor over anothers, but the possibility of opening up the all-pervasive, super-saturating media landscape that we all live in, so that it is programmable not just by those who can afford to pay to play, but to everyone.

May 14, 2010, 12:30


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

DevastatorJr.
DevastatorJr.
961 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

revox wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
Taking something I created and presenting it, unaltered, as your own, is plagarism. But I'd have no problem with you reading a comic I've drawn that someone's given you for free or creating fan fiction using some of my characters. Or if you wanted to do something of your own using a style or technique I came up with, it would be fine by me.

I'm of the opinion that no one can ever really bite your style, not if you're truly original. Jack Kerouac said, "Ideas come a dime a dozen, it's the approach that's important."





Someone printing your work under another name and selling it in Thailand, for example, would probably earn a little bit of coin and there isn't a darn thing to be done about it. The sole benefit of this scenario to you is that you will be blissfully unaware of it; no one will be waving the proceeds from the sale of your work under your nose as they snigger at your impotence.


~8^|>


Just curious, what do you think about mash-up's, sampling and that sort of thing?

May 14, 2010, 12:51


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

DevastatorJr.
DevastatorJr.
961 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

revox wrote:
[quote="DevastatorJr."]

Someone printing your work under another name and selling it in Thailand, for example, would probably earn a little bit of coin and there isn't a darn thing to be done about it. The sole benefit of this scenario to you is that you will be blissfully unaware of it; no one will be waving the proceeds from the sale of your work under your nose as they snigger at your impotence.


~8^|>


For some insight into how file sharing and similar practices may not be as bad for business as you think, you should check out Chris Anderson's book, "Free: The Future of a Radical Price"

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Future-Radical-Chris-Anderson/dp/B00342VEP6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273839453&sr=8-5

In the music industry, for example, after an act has recorded an album, the record company may be reluctant to release it for one reason or another, so the acts often take it upon themselves to leak the album to file sharers, (rappers do this all the time,) creating a word of mouth buzz for it before it comes out.

I was actually thinking about this yesterday, in regards to the underground cartoonists the Hernandez brothers, and their comic Love & Rockets, and how there’s a big opportunity for them to cross over to the adult female market, and that they should probably release a couple of their comics, say “Whoa Nellie” and “The High Soft Lisp” (Jamie and Gilbert respectively,) as free ebooks on some site like Salon or Reddit, as an introduction to their whole milieu. They might lose a couple of sales, but gain an entire audience. This works with software too, and don't think for a second they don't know it.

Try to see the forest instead of just staring at the trees.

Finally, I don't pretend to have all the answers, or to be 100% ethically pure, but I believe we live in a world where one has to be flexible, give a little, take a little, and try not to be so quick to judge others. Try it sometime.

May 14, 2010, 13:20


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

mirtchevman
mirtchevman
1725 posts

Re: steal this book/movie/song.

cyberpainter wrote:


No you shouldn't, considering the millions of artists in the world, according to your assessment I guess you'd be really busy.


you should me well enough by now to know that my statement was not in reference to the millions of artists in the world -- most of whom are working class.

May 14, 2010, 14:41


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

mirtchevman
mirtchevman
1725 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

DevastatorJr. wrote:


For some insight into how file sharing and similar practices may not be as bad for business as you think, you should check out Chris Anderson's book, "Free: The Future of a Radical Price"

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Future-Radical-Chris-Anderson/dp/B00342VEP6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273839453&sr=8-5


free download available here. ahem.

http://hyperionbooks.com/free/

May 14, 2010, 14:47


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

jauntymonty
jauntymonty
1623 posts

Re: steal this book/movie/song.

mirtchevman wrote:
matthew6 wrote:
I am not even sure if is a problem at this point... rather it's just the reality


oh, i agree w/ you -- i don't believe it's a real 'problem' either. if anything, it might be a solution of some kind...



Artist are on the right track with selling their works on their own web site. Passing out free CDs at a concert is not a bad way to circulate your wares as well, assuming, dare I say, the artist included the CD distribution in their ticket price.

May 14, 2010, 16:15


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

revox
revox
800 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

DevastatorJr. wrote:

I don't recall expressing any vehement defence of my own intellectual property rights as opposed to those of others, in fact, in the scenario you laid out, someone in some far off place pawning my work off as their own, frankly, I wouldn't really care. What I object to in plagarism is not the loss of profit, but the lack of originality. Everything with you is about money.

For me, the real issue isn't about one persons abstract notion of honor over anothers, but the possibility of opening up the all-pervasive, super-saturating media landscape that we all live in, so that it is programmable not just by those who can afford to pay to play, but to everyone.


I think that you appreciate that I am not referring solely to your IP rights but to what you believe are your 'rights', period.

I also think that the casual attitude to your loss of profit in the scenario presented is BS and, when you say that the main object of your concern would be the 'lack of originality' in plagiarising and selling your work, it is further evidence of your lack of maturity and global sophistication.

Do you know how much a family in Thailand survive on every week? When a father says that his children are starving he means that they have nothing to eat and not that they can't afford to go to Burger King three times a week.

Oh, and no, everything about me isn't money, here I think that you speak of yourself and, if you don't remember the intensity of your convictions regarding your use of illegal software (down to your monetary status, not mine) see the evidence in your OP and subsequent thread Help Me Obi Wan Adobe

~8^|>

May 14, 2010, 16:18


________________\________________________________________________\______________________________________

mirtchevman
mirtchevman
1725 posts

Re: Evolution?! lol

revox wrote:

Do you know how much a family in Thailand survive on every week? When a father says that his children are starving he means that they have nothing to eat and not that they can't afford to go to Burger King three times a week.

~8^|>


this example brings us back to the problem of compensation value from JS's thread -- it only strengthens the argument that the current economic model is broken. it's not the people who share mp3 files and movies that you should be mad at for this -- it's the people too stubborn to really try to strike the balance between social and economic values. They can't imagine doing without that fat paycheck which could pay to feed a whole 3rd world village but instead just pays for their three homes and their kid's au pair...

if this sharing model continues to accelerate and broaden in such a way that it really begin to break down parts of this economic structure -- which it definitely is -- then perhaps what will follow is a critical rethinking of it. i don't think capitalism is totally useless but it needs reigning in. and it needs to start here before it can start to benefit that family in Thailand.

i think these kinds of dialogues are good exercises and are proof that something really important is going on. it can't simply be be dismissed as theft -- some pretty influencial thinkers are weighing on this question too, people who don't even necessarily know how to use rapidshare...

May 14, 2010, 17:04

Pages: 7 – [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | Next ]

add a reply to this topic
________________________________________________________________\______________________________________
stereolab table Index