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President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!
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Mars Rover *bow wow*
Mars Rover *bow wow*
92 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

Kazak wrote:
I can't believe we actually have a real president!! Watching this presser today it really sunk in a little. It's stark now how we've clearly lacked any leadership whatsoever with the previous administration. It actually feels good! Wow, leadership. Reasoned government.

hehe...i had the same reaction when i heard the press conference on the radio. It feels good to be able to listen to a president and actually have confidence in them.

Nov 08, 2008, 23:59


489 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

vivakomeda wrote:
I'm depressed by how many JSs there are out there.

...but I don't begrudge people who have a different point of view...

How can I explain...

For example: Would you begrudge someone whose point of view is tolerant of racism, sexism, pedophilia, homophobia, murder etc...? Would you respect such a person? Wouldn't you consider him idiots or at least a little deranged?

To me, religious zealots, gun nuts, anti-gays, pro-wars, pro-lifes, anti-wellfare are threading the same grounds as murderers, pedophile, sexists, racists, etc...

Such viewpoints are totally incompatible with my mindset.

If someone tells me "I am pro-war, you may not agree with me, but you have to accept and respect different point of views."

It would almost mean the sam to me if he said: "I am pro-pedophilia, you may not agree with me, but you have to accept and respect different point of views."

See what I mean?

Nov 09, 2008, 13:57


1425 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

Thing is, JS, I probably agree with what your trying to say more than most people here...but you're making quite a large assumption by equating a vote for McCain as a vote for war, against personal freedoms, etc. A lot of people who chose McCain over Obama did so for economy-based reasons, and while I don't necessarily agree with that logic on all accounts, there are some valid arguments to be made for preferring McCain on those grounds.

By saying that all people who voted McCain are fucking idiots, you're not only coming off as unnecessarily rude but you're demonstrating that you don't really have a deep grasp of the issues at hand. Are some of the people who voted McCain "fucking idiots" by your standards? Probably. But hey, you can probably find quite a few of those who checked "Obama" on their ballots, too. Either way, it's highly irrelevant and does little to advance political discourse.

Nov 09, 2008, 17:50


736 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

Let's play a game and tally up the amount of cognitive biases that JS uses in his fine prose. These are errors:

* Bandwagon effect ? the tendency to do (or believe) things because many other people do (or believe) the same. Related to groupthink and herd behaviour.
* Base rate fallacy ? ignoring available statistical data in favor of particulars.
* Bias blind spot ? the tendency not to compensate for one's own cognitive biases.
* Choice-supportive bias ? the tendency to remember one's choices as better than they actually were.
* Confirmation bias ? the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions.
* Congruence bias ? the tendency to test hypotheses exclusively through direct testing, in contrast to tests of possible alternative hypotheses.
* Conservatism bias ? the tendency to ignore the consequence of new evidence. (Related to base rate fallacy.)
* Contrast effect ? the enhancement or diminishing of a weight or other measurement when compared with recently observed contrasting object.
* D?formation professionnelle ? the tendency to look at things according to the conventions of one's own profession, forgetting any broader point of view.
* Denial[verification needed] ? the tendency to disbelieve or discount an unpleasant fact.
* Distinction bias ? the tendency to view two options as more dissimilar when evaluating them simultaneously than when evaluating them separately.
* Endowment effect ? "the fact that people often demand much more to give up an object than they would be willing to pay to acquire it".
* Expectation bias ? the tendency for experimenters to believe, certify, and publish data that agrees with their expectations for the outcome of an experiment, and to disbelieve, discard, or downgrade the corresponding weightings for data that appears to conflict with those expectations.
* Extreme aversion ? the tendency to avoid extremes, being more likely to choose an option if it is the intermediate choice.
* Focusing effect ? prediction bias occurring when people place too much importance on one aspect of an event; causes error in accurately predicting the utility of a future outcome.
* Framing ? by using a too narrow approach or description of the situation or issue. Also framing effect ? drawing different conclusions based on how data are presented.
* Hostility [verification needed]
* Hyperbolic discounting ? the tendency for people to have a stronger preference for more immediate payoffs relative to later payoffs, where the tendency increases the closer to the present both payoffs are.
* Illusion of control ? the tendency for human beings to believe they can control or at least influence outcomes that they clearly cannot.
* Impact bias ? the tendency for people to overestimate the length or the intensity of the impact of future feeling states.
* Information bias ? the tendency to seek information even when it cannot affect action.
* Irrational escalation ? the tendency to make irrational decisions based upon rational decisions in the past or to justify actions already taken.
* Loss aversion ? "the disutility of giving up an object is greater than the utility associated with acquiring it". (see also sunk cost effects and Endowment effect).
* Mere exposure effect ? the tendency for people to express undue liking for things merely because they are familiar with them.
* Moral credential effect ? the tendency of a track record of non-prejudice to increase subsequent prejudice.
* Need for closure ? the need to reach a verdict in important matters; to have an answer and to escape the feeling of doubt and uncertainty. The personal context (time or social pressure) might increase this bias.
* Neglect of probability ? the tendency to completely disregard probability when making a decision under uncertainty.
* Not Invented Here ? the tendency to ignore that a product or solution already exists, because its source is seen as an "enemy" or as "inferior".
* Omission bias ? the tendency to judge harmful actions as worse, or less moral, than equally harmful omissions (inactions).
* Outcome bias ? the tendency to judge a decision by its eventual outcome instead of based on the quality of the decision at the time it was made.
* Planning fallacy ? the tendency to underestimate task-completion times.
* Post-purchase rationalization ? the tendency to persuade oneself through rational argument that a purchase was a good value.
* Pseudocertainty effect ? the tendency to make risk-averse choices if the expected outcome is positive, but make risk-seeking choices to avoid negative outcomes.
* Reactance ? the urge to do the opposite of what someone wants you to do out of a need to resist a perceived attempt to constrain your freedom of choice.
* Selective perception ? the tendency for expectations to affect perception.
* Status quo bias ? the tendency for people to like things to stay relatively the same (see also loss aversion, endowment effect, and system justification).
* Von Restorff effect ? the tendency for an item that "stands out like a sore thumb" to be more likely to be remembered than other items.
* Wishful thinking ? the formation of beliefs and the making of decisions according to what is pleasing to imagine instead of by appeal to evidence or rationality.
* Zero-risk bias ? preference for reducing a small risk to zero over a greater reduction in a larger risk.

Have a look, JS.


Nov 09, 2008, 18:17


1083 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

wow! what an impressive list! where did u get all those terms from?

Nov 10, 2008, 02:38


744 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!

I hope I don't sound sanctimonious (you'll tell me if I do, I'm sure) when I say that you owe it to yourself to try and understand the viewpoints of your opponents. You'll live your life in complete misery and insecurity if you don't.

And on the "anti-war" issue - where I'm sure you mean to say you are a pacifist (we're all anti-war, of course) - your hero himself has made it clear that military options are open with reference to the Pakistan situation.

Nov 10, 2008, 06:23


489 posts

Re: President elect Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!


I couldn't be bothered to read most of your copy-paste list, too long, sorry, but I read enough to understand that you seem to be reproaching me of being biased... As if bias is necessarily a wrong thing???

Aren't we all biaised in some way? Well, I can admit that I indeed am, how about you? Maybe you are suggesting there are "good" and "bad" biases?

Is it a "good bias" to abhor murderers, pedophiles and rapists?

Is it any worse/better to abhor gun-nuts, homophobes and pro-lifes? Why?


The anti-war thing was merely an example to help you understand how I think. I know that war can sometime be a necessary evil, when all diplomatic options are exhausted. However, the war in Iraq was never necessary, and diplomacy was neglected anyway. Only a fool would still support the war in Iraq, (and possibly only fools ever supported it).

It's not just about the war thing anyway: Most of the core values of the GOP are so obviously against human progress towards better life for everyone that someone voting for them must be an idiot ESPECIALLY knowing what the GOP did for the last eight years.

That thing is so clear in my mind, it isn't even worth discussing or debating, since it would be like debating wether rape or pedophilia are good or bad things.


I now understand that my referal to GOP voters as "idiots/morons" was a tad reductive. Indeed a smart person can vote for the GOP,

For example: Voting GOP because your promised tax return would make you richer under a conservative administration. Very smart indeed, but also very selfish and showing lack of concern for the fate of those less fortunate who would be the victim of the GOP's evils. Do you vote for your immediate, personal and selfish gain or for the common good? You don't care about innocents dying in an unjustified war for as long as you pay less taxes?

So, I humbly admit my mistake: GOP voters may not be all idiots. If they are smart, then they are cruel and selfish.

Nov 10, 2008, 14:53

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