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Shame on the Swiss
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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

hito wrote:

If your "Christian" friend (Christian being followers of Jesus Christ) thinks that forgiving the September 11 bombers is bollocks then I don't know why they are a Christian.

If you don't believe in forgiveness in yourself, for you it is not possible.

But don't let your cynicism tell me or anyone else that they cannot forgive. I can and do every day and I am not a Christian.


My christian friend (as he made the statement) obviously did not think it was bollocks - I do. I was not and would not for a minute presume to tell others what to think, and I find your insinuation insulting and peurile. Everyone (including me) is entitled to have their opinion on this and every other issue. I was merely contributing to the debate.

The definition of the term:

debate. noun - a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

Jul 15, 2010, 09:25


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

Dara wrote:
hito wrote:

If your "Christian" friend (Christian being followers of Jesus Christ) thinks that forgiving the September 11 bombers is bollocks then I don't know why they are a Christian.

If you don't believe in forgiveness in yourself, for you it is not possible.

But don't let your cynicism tell me or anyone else that they cannot forgive. I can and do every day and I am not a Christian.


My christian friend (as he made the statement) obviously did not think it was bollocks - I do. I was not and would not for a minute presume to tell others what to think, and I find your insinuation insulting and peurile. Everyone (including me) is entitled to have their opinion on this and every other issue. I was merely contributing to the debate.

The definition of the term:

debate. noun - a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.



Now, now. No need to burst your boiler. If you are insulted, think I am juvenile and insulting or need debate explained then we have strayed from the course.

Perhaps it was all in the telling. I suppose that saying someone elses's belief is bollocks doesn't suggest that you are interested in open debate but that is just me.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I was enjoying the to and fro.

Anyway, on with the show.

Given that you acknowledge that forgiveness is possible and we have already acknowledged that there are doubts about the authenticity of her forgiveness and so can put them aside for a second, if it were genuine, would this sway your opinion on whether Polanski should be locked up? Or would you say that her forgiveness, like the Christian forgiveness of the S11 bombers is a very undesirable idea - bollocks, even?

Jul 15, 2010, 10:24


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

hito wrote:


Now, now. No need to burst your boiler. If you are insulted, think I am juvenile and insulting or need debate explained then we have strayed from the course.

Perhaps it was all in the telling. I suppose that saying someone elses's belief is bollocks doesn't suggest that you are interested in open debate but that is just me.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I was enjoying the to and fro.

Anyway, on with the show.

Given that you acknowledge that forgiveness is possible and we have already acknowledged that there are doubts about the authenticity of her forgiveness and so can put them aside for a second, if it were genuine, would this sway your opinion on whether Polanski should be locked up? Or would you say that her forgiveness, like the Christian forgiveness of the S11 bombers is a very undesirable idea - bollocks, even?



There you go again. Why should I not be generally interested in open debate because I think IN THIS CASE what my friend said was bollocks?. Of course I love open debate even if sometimes I think the other's opinion is bollocks - sometimes I see the other's point of view and change my opinion as a result. Dialectic materialism has always proved an effective means of discovery and problem solving for me.

If Samantha's forgiveness were genuine no it would not sway my opinion. If that were so ultimately there would be anarchy. Gangs killing other gang members avoiding prosecution because they were 'forgiven' irrespective of who was killed in the crossfire. Again it is an idealistic model and the reality of the human condition would never be served by such idealism.

Forgiveness is an intensely personal emotion and not related to punishment. It is possible to forgive but still want retribution. It is like charity - it loses it's purity when it is pronounced to others and similarly perhaps Samantha's forgiveness (if genuine) is good for her recovery and that is a truly wonderful thing, but for everyone else particularly those with children of their own it is still an unforgiveable crime.

What Polanski did is still one of the last taboos and in the UK for example, it is almost possible for a lynch mob to execute someone for the same crime with no questions asked. I am not saying I agree with that, but it is an illustration of how deeply society is repulsed by this terror in our midst.

Jul 15, 2010, 11:28


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

Dara wrote:


There you go again. Why should I not be generally interested in open debate because I think IN THIS CASE what my friend said was bollocks?

Because Bollocks appears to me to not be an open debate kind of word. As you have said, it is to you and so I said fine.

Anyway, you make a number of good points. I suppose anarchy could erupt.
On the other hand, it does raise some interesting ideas; what would happen if we never fought back? never tried to control anyone? Forgave everyone?
Of course, it will never happen. We may end up like the Eloi in the Time Machine.

Jul 15, 2010, 13:07


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Cheeso
Cheeso
642 posts

More proof that JS is nothing but a troll

JS wrote:

I intervened in this thread

You only replied because you cannot resist me. And you only addressed the topic as an afterthought because I called you out for being a troll, and I was right.

JS wrote:


Cheeso, you brought this subject on this forum at least twice. You want to keep this controversy alive, despite the will of the victim herself.

This shows clearly that you don't give a shit about the well being of the victim. You care more about the rapist than you care for the poor girl who was raped. That's disgusting, Cheeso.


Yeah, because the victim obviously visits the Stereolab forum. This is one of the stupidest things you've said. Which is amazing because that is a huge list.

Don't complain about me anymore, you are nothing more than a blatant troll.

Jul 15, 2010, 14:00


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vivakomeda
746 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

To some people "reasonable" = "you agree with my point of view". No argument required.

Jul 16, 2010, 02:56


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vivakomeda
746 posts

General question for those supporting Polanski...

If the victim still wanted the US authorities to pursue the case, would that change your point of view?

Jul 16, 2010, 02:57


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s_lush_s
s_lush_s
7383 posts

Re: Shame on the Swiss

what a topic... if that were one of my children...I'd commit a mortal sin. how could he continue his career for almost 40 years? how could california not prosecute sooner?
I would have gone vigilante, then taken my children and myself to France.
It's ridiculous. he'll never be kubrick.

Jul 16, 2010, 05:03


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JS
JS
489 posts

Re: More proof that JS is nothing but a troll

Cheeso wrote:
Yeah, because the victim obviously visits the Stereolab forum.


If she would, you would call her a fool for not agreeing with you.


Anyway, discussing this matter here contributes to some small extent in keeping the controversy alive out of this place too.


Does Polanski visits the Stereolab forum? Do you think he cares about what you think?

Now shut-up, dum-dum. This case should be closed because the victim herself would prefer it that way. Polanski escaped the law because of an unfortunate chain of circumstances. He is known as a rapist wherever he goes. That is sufficient punishment.

Frankly, I don't get this sick obsession you have about him being captured and brought to justice, but, after all, you are known here for having a twisted sense of logic and values.

Here, you are implying that those of us who don't really care about Polanski being brought to justice are condoning rape.

A similar situation happened a while ago: you once showed us a link telling that John Lennon was a violent husband who used to beat Yoko Ono. You then told that being a fan of Lennon's music was akin to condone spousal abuse...

I pity you, really.

Jul 16, 2010, 05:47


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Cheeso
Cheeso
642 posts

Re: More proof that JS is nothing but a troll

JS wrote:

If she would, you would call her a fool for not agreeing with you.

Its obvious to everyone that you have nothing intelligent to contribute on this topic. You are merely trolling. When will it stop?

JS wrote:

Now shut-up, dum-dum.


Again with the insults. You are incapable of staying away from me and incapable of not insulting me. How sad your life must be.

JS wrote:

This case should be closed because the victim herself would prefer it that way. Polanski escaped the law because of an unfortunate chain of circumstances. He is known as a rapist wherever he goes. That is sufficient punishment.

This has been said many times, but you seem to fail to understand it: the charges were brought by the state, because the state protects the people through enforcement of the law. He never paid for his crime, he fled justice. Those are facts. I know you have trouble dealing with facts, so I'm not surprised you don't get it.

JS wrote:

Frankly, I don't get this sick obsession you have about him


Frankly, I don't get this sick obsession you have about me.

No one was talking to you or about you in this thread. Yet you had to jump in an insult me because you are obsessed with me.

Only after being called out for your obvious trolling did you come up with these half-assed, feeble, illogical, misinformed, and dumb arguments. But its too late to backtrack and pretend you're interested in this topic now.

You exposed yourself for the troll that you are. It is now obvious to anyone who was in doubt.

So, I ask you again, when will your trolling stop?

Jul 16, 2010, 05:59

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