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Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?
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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5929 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

velvetwater wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
I'll never understand the urge some people have to censor others on a public forum or even ban them from speaking entirely. Isn't it simple enough to simply not read messages from those you find offensive, or is the idea that you don't want others to read them either?

Neither god nor master.


Why do some of you always think that I am trying to tell others what to do?
I am trying to have a peaceful thread here and here is another attack.
Am I not entitled to my opinions?
If I "suggest" or "propose" something it does not mean that I want to enforce it.
But yes, if it was up to me I would ban certain users as they are simply annoying. Maybe I should really try and not read their entries. But it is hard as they enter almost every single thread like insects!

But can anyone, if you remember, tell me why the old forum was closed?


You consider Dev's post an attack, and in the next sentence say some should be banned because they're simply annoying and like insects?

Jul 21, 2010, 17:16


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velvetwater
velvetwater
835 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

cyberpainter wrote:


You consider Dev's post an attack, and in the next sentence say some should be banned because they're simply annoying and like insects?


Do you know the difference between a personal opinion and a dictatorial enforcement of it?

I did not say that Dev's post was either rude or annoying, but it was a criticism of me when I was actually generating an open debate about a concept and not about individual people.
He brought the subject up and again I offered my opinion.
Yes, I do think that those 1 or 2 (without counting the double identities) users are irritating and the reference to insects means "annoying and difficult to ignore (as he was suggesting I should do)".

Jul 21, 2010, 17:26


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DevastatorJr.
DevastatorJr.
961 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

k. wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
I'll never understand the urge some people have to censor others on a public forum or even ban them from speaking entirely. Isn't it simple enough to simply not read messages from those you find offensive, or is the idea that you don't want others to read them either?


I don't know, when you have a community, there are certain expected customs and decorums. You can't go around calling your neighbors names all the time without something bad happening. Imagine if this weren't teh internetz, would you allow somebody to follow you around saying rude things to you, and not entertain the option of calling the cops for harassment?


A few things - first, because this is in fact an internet forum, the same rules of behavior don't apply as in the case of someone following you around in the physical real world. Again, here on the internet, we always have the option of simply not reading comments from those we don't like. This may not be convenient, but personally, I value the right to free speech, particularly here on the internet, one of the last bastions of free speech, more than the minor annoyance of having to scroll past some objectionable comments.

Second, whose standards of behavior are we to abide by? I'm sure we all have different ideas about what is objectionable speech and what is not, unless we had some sort of written charter that we all agreed to, any moderators decisions would be totally arbitrary. The way I see it playing out would be that those incessantly complaining about others would probably end up winning, if only because the moderator would tire of hearing about it. But that wouldn't necessarily make it right.

Lastly, I didn't intend my comments as an attack, (well, maybe I did, but an attack on the idea of censorship, not a personal attack, since I don't know you,) and of course you have the right to express your opinion, just as I have the right to express my opinion about yours, and on and on and on. That's what free speech is all about, right? ;)

Jul 21, 2010, 17:52


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k.
k.
407 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

DevastatorJr. wrote:
k. wrote:
DevastatorJr. wrote:
I'll never understand the urge some people have to censor others on a public forum or even ban them from speaking entirely. Isn't it simple enough to simply not read messages from those you find offensive, or is the idea that you don't want others to read them either?


I don't know, when you have a community, there are certain expected customs and decorums. You can't go around calling your neighbors names all the time without something bad happening. Imagine if this weren't teh internetz, would you allow somebody to follow you around saying rude things to you, and not entertain the option of calling the cops for harassment?


A few things - first, because this is in fact an internet forum, the same rules of behavior don't apply as in the case of someone following you around in the physical real world. Again, here on the internet, we always have the option of simply not reading comments from those we don't like. This may not be convenient, but personally, I value the right to free speech, particularly here on the internet, one of the last bastions of free speech, more than the minor annoyance of having to scroll past some objectionable comments.

Second, whose standards of behavior are we to abide by? I'm sure we all have different ideas about what is objectionable speech and what is not, unless we had some sort of written charter that we all agreed to, any moderators decisions would be totally arbitrary. The way I see it playing out would be that those incessantly complaining about others would probably end up winning, if only because the moderator would tire of hearing about it. But that wouldn't necessarily make it right.

Lastly, I didn't intend my comments as an attack, (well, maybe I did, but an attack on the idea of censorship, not a personal attack, since I don't know you,) and of course you have the right to express your opinion, just as I have the right to express my opinion about yours, and on and on and on. That's what free speech is all about, right? ;)


Last to first...

I didn't consider your comments an attack at all. And I don't disagree with you about Free Speech either, except where it pertains to direct attack of another member of a community with namecalling in conjunction with following that user around the board and replying with said namecalling to every last post. The "standards of behavior" are at least in a small part a mirror of the standards of behavior of society, where you cannot shout "fire" in a public space, you cannot shout obscenities at another person on a habitual basis, and you are subject to the rules of local, state and federal issue.

Then there's the matter of what you are allowed to transmit electronically in a private domain. The words used are things, and they become the property of the domain: it is not up to the users to decide, unless the owner of the domain elects to allow them to. What a participant in a domain transmits is completely subject to the whims and permissions of the domain owner, who can rule the domain as strictly or liberally as he chooses, unless of course it transcends those boundaries and enters into language and behavior prohibited by state and federal law, as outlined more or less by Section 223 of title 47 as amended by the Communications Decency Act (United States)
http://www.cybertelecom.org/cda/47usc223.htm
Free speech is not guaranteed on the internet, both for reasons of private property and because of state and federal laws that prohibit certain uses of it.

Finally, I want to say that the Stereolab Forum should be a bastion of Free Speech as intended by Laetitia or Tim, but I cannot. The management has in the past banned (permanently censored) certain users. So Stereolab is not immune to applying censorship on their property.

Jul 21, 2010, 18:08


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velvetwater
velvetwater
835 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

Now you are talking, dev.
I appreciate this clarification.
And you are right. But this means that there is never an end in a debate: it is like "we agree to disagree" kind of conclusion.
So is it worth it? I am sure sometimes it is but many times it is not, especially when it starts becoming "personal".
That's why I did suggest to stop the Polanski thread, not because I wanted to enforce anything.

Jul 21, 2010, 18:11


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velvetwater
velvetwater
835 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

I was referring to dev's reply.

Jul 21, 2010, 18:13


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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5929 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

velvetwater wrote:
cyberpainter wrote:


You consider Dev's post an attack, and in the next sentence say some should be banned because they're simply annoying and like insects?


Do you know the difference between a personal opinion and a dictatorial enforcement of it?

I did not say that Dev's post was either rude or annoying, but it was a criticism of me when I was actually generating an open debate about a concept and not about individual people.
He brought the subject up and again I offered my opinion.
Yes, I do think that those 1 or 2 (without counting the double identities) users are irritating and the reference to insects means "annoying and difficult to ignore (as he was suggesting I should do)".



I can understand the difference. If you want to get into a debate with me, believe me, I will be very up to the challange.

Considering your other thread, this follows a similar path, and of course can't be completely considered merely an abstract idea. You have a bone to pick with another member, and don't seem to want to stop unless the conclusion is that you win in some way.

Jul 21, 2010, 21:45


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vivakomeda
746 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

"Or would that compromise freedom of speech too much?"

Excellent choice of words.

I believe you are relatively new to this forum. In that case, you might either defer to people who have been here longer or just grin and bear whatever you problems you have with the site and its users.

If you have a problem with certain individuals, either choose to argue with them or ignore them.

But please don't whine for some moderator to step in... THAT is childish, probably to an even greater degree than the name-calling/etc...

Jul 21, 2010, 23:00


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s_lush_s
s_lush_s
7383 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

I don't understand why you can't just deal with people? You are the type of person who vies to instigate dismissals of coworkers you disagree with. You are! I know it!
I've worked with people like you. Why can't you moderate yourself? I disagree with many things said here, but I hold my tongue, most of the time. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all! don't even express your disagreement. I've tried-over the internet, sentiments can be so easily misinterpreted. so try not to be so serious.

and try to get along or not. Is your choice.

Jul 21, 2010, 23:42


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velvetwater
velvetwater
835 posts

Re: Would the introduction of a moderator be good for the forum?

vivakomeda wrote:

But please don't whine for some moderator to step in... THAT is childish, probably to an even greater degree than the name-calling/etc...


Mine was just a consideration to stimulate a debate.
Didn't really work, obviously.

Jul 21, 2010, 23:53

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