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Osama Bin Laden dead?
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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

Icepulse wrote:
hito wrote:
Icepulse wrote:
hito wrote:
...the west has shown that we think killing is a way to solve problems.


Yes... the west.

hito wrote:
One death is nothing but a bag of bones in the ocean. 1000 deaths is a stack of bones on some dirt. 1 million deaths is a bigger stack.


That sounds so positively existentialist, I have to wonder which of your remarks reflects your perspective!



a) Yes, the west. Read the earlier post in full to get the explanation.
b)Yes. Why wouldn't they be my perspective?

Perhaps you could come up with a thesis rather than simply playing the man.


I read your post, hito. I simply don't feel that it explains anything. My earlier post posits the perspective taken by intelligent Americans, with regard to the thing being "celebrated". It's more than the death of one cad; it's the destruction of an idea that is toxic to civilized society.

hito wrote:
One death is nothing but a bag of bones in the ocean. 1000 deaths is a stack of bones on some dirt. 1 million deaths is a bigger stack.
implies that you are either being facetious, or that you understand the insignificance of the speck that is our generation, in the scheme of time. But which? If the former, then it is your thesis that seems pointless. If the latter, then you contradict yourself.

Regardless, it strikes me as disingenuous when someone cries foul at the extermination of a creature who does nothing with his time on earth, but to devise horrible ways of exterminating other people, en masse, with indiscriminate ease. I'm a hardcore liberal, but I look at people who are expressing exultation over this issue, and at least it feels genuine. When I read comments that express disgust, I have a terrible feeling that I'm staring into the face of nonchalant hypocrisy; that you really don't give a tinker's shit about this person, and that you're just looking for some excuse to devalue the feelings of the common man.

At least they feel something.

I'm not singling anyone out. But the notion of human life being SO valuable that even the most deplorable of villains deserve to go right on living.... Well, that strikes me as fairly fundamentalist. I seriously doubt that even the greatest history's thinkers would support the view.



Well this is better. I don't necessariy agree but it is generally something I can appreciate.

I disagree that it is the death of an idea. Sadly, he is just one man and there are many more - including his right hand man - who are ready to take up the slack. According to some analysts that I saw on the tele, he has not been a driving force for some time.

No, I was not being existentialist (much) or facetious when talking about the bones. My point was that killling even 1 million people does not solve the problems. It generally means that people are dead and their families and friends are angry. If the idea doesn't die then nothing is achieved by killing.

Finally, I am not crying foul because Laden is dead and taken from us. I am crying foul at the bloodlust. I am disappointed that we in the west aren't looking for a solution that is creative and forward thinking. I wish we would look for the cause rather than the symptoms. I wish we would act consistently with our own principles.

I don't discount the common man's feelings. I am sure they are "genuine". I just wish they did not feel that way. It is just my opinion and obviously millions or even billions disagree with me.

There is nothing hypocritical, disingenuous, hypocritical, nonchalant and I am not looking for excuses. I just disagree with you. Don't feel the need to second guess me, I have no reason to hide my true feelings from you.

May 02, 2011, 23:58


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JS
JS
489 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

flatironsteak wrote:
So what was the U.S supposed to do after the 911? Should they just have stayed still for the whole time and let whatever you want to describe attack the shit out of the U.S?



Simple: The US should care more about defense than offense.

I recently read that about 5% of the US military budget goes for the protection of the homeland against attacks from the outside. The remaining is spent for attacks and invasion outside the homeland.

Why do they spend so much for attack and so little for defense? The answer is obvious to me.

May 03, 2011, 00:05


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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5928 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

JS, what's your opinion about how much Canada exports in uranium? Does it make you feel like your country is in part responsible for nuclear accidents and uranium tipped weapons?

I'm not trying to excuse American war excesses, which I deplore.

When it comes to Osama Bin Laden, I think it was a tactical decision which probably had a lot of pros and cons, as to whether to kill him or capture him.

May 03, 2011, 02:44


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JS
JS
489 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

Icepulse wrote:
Well, we see US people celebrating in the streets, and it calls to mind images of news footage of Middle Eastern Islamic communities dancing and celebrating the fall of the WTC on 09/11/2011...

But I don't see too many news clips of US citizens dancing a jig when word gets out that a village of 4,000 innocent Muslims end up under the rubble of Allied air-strike...


The middleeastern Islamic communities were dancing in the street after 9/11 because it was an extraordinary event: The small guy managed to kick the giant in the nuts.

US citizens are not dancing in the streets when innocent Middle-Easterns are killed by US and allied soldiers simply because it's been a while since there's nothing extraordinary about this. Innocent muslims are being killed when the US attacks...so what? Business as usual! No event there.


Osama dead? Now that's unusual! The world's most potent military force got the boogeyman after ten years. Wow! He had ample time to die of illness or old age...

Probably the US got him just because he was getting tired of hiding.

May 03, 2011, 02:56


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Mu Mu
Mu Mu
2778 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

JS wrote:
Just remember, idiot, ... It's the economy, stupid.


Hmmmm... "idiot", "stupid"... it's easy to act tough behind a computer monitor i guess.

May 03, 2011, 13:18


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Icepulse
Icepulse
166 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

JS wrote:
The middleeastern Islamic communities were dancing in the street after 9/11 because it was an extraordinary event: The small guy managed to kick the giant in the nuts.


Just people, man.

JS wrote:
US citizens are not dancing in the streets when innocent Middle-Easterns are killed by US and allied soldiers simply because it's been a while since there's nothing extraordinary about this. Innocent muslims are being killed when the US attacks...so what? Business as usual! No event there.


That's a pretty presumptuous suggestion.

May 03, 2011, 13:34


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motoroller
79 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

Wah! Human rights!! I hear they shot him in the beard. I guess no visit from Osama Claus this 9/11.

May 03, 2011, 14:09


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motoroller
79 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

Wah! Death!!! Sorry your buttbuddy Osama got shot in the beard.

May 03, 2011, 14:11


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motoroller
79 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

What was Anna Nicole Smith's favorite game as a little girl?

Peek-a-boob.

May 03, 2011, 14:12


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Bytor Peltor
Bytor Peltor
165 posts

Re: Osama Bin Laden dead?

hito wrote:
I suppose to explain further, I doubt his death will change anything. I think terrorists will still exist and the west has shown that we think killing is a way to solve problems. The world is not better for that. The cycle of violence will continue.

Did the death of Khomeni or Arafat bring peace and reason? No. Did the end of Bush's presidency end the war in Afghanistan? No.

One death is nothing but a bag of bones in the ocean. 1000 deaths is a stack of bones on some dirt. 1 million deaths is a bigger stack.


SO - what is the rest of the world to do when it comes upon the absolute embodiment of evil in a man, nation or movement?

Do we really understand evil? NO - not someone who breaks into your home or a man who kills his wife because he finds her with another man. I believe a serial killers are close, but it's still nothing like an islamofascist who sends children to commit suicide by blowing up women and children. This is true evil and OBL was very much the root of this type of evil at one time. He may have somewhat slowed and became less involved in his older age, but I believe he was still a motivating factor for many others who look to harm innocent people.

There is only one death that ever brought peace, and we celebrated that a week ago.

May 03, 2011, 14:28

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