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You forgot the kind regards this time Joe - or is that reserved only for people who agree with your Christian sensibilities?. I merely stated the facts of the matter:

I did not say who was ‘behind’ the killing - but it is a stated fact that they agency responsible for decreeing and carrying out the crucifiction was the Roman state. Jesus was killed by the Roman Authority. This you have stated yourself and I agree:

”lereostab” wrote:
...because they weren’t allowed to do it themselves UNDER ROMAN LAW..

...Also, are you saying that all Christians living now are responsible for the horrific deeds perpetrated in Jesus name in the past i.e. the crusades or witch hunts, because if you are then your argument borders on lunacy..

Again abdicating any responsibility for the horrendous deeds done in the name of Jesus Christ in the past. Radical Islam states that Christians living now are responsible for the crusades and indeed feel that Christians are to this day involved in a crusade in the middle east. To deny that religion is responsible for most of the problems in humanity these days is a naive and narrow minded approach to world politics. But of course those practising the religion would always say it is not their God but the failings and weaknesses of mere mortals - do me a favour.

I did not say that YOU personally were responsible for the horrific deeds etc, I don’t feel you are as you seem to be as much opposed to organised religion as I am. I will say however that I feel that those who adhere devoutly to Christian dogma are now and will always be responsible for the deeds perpetrated by their religion. Christians are responsible NOW for making women suffer the pressure and inhumanity of not having the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, excluding and oppressing gay and lesbian members of society on the basis that it is regarded as an ‘abomination’ in the bible, discriminating against women in the very administration of the religion in it’s churches etc etc the list is endless if you look closely at the personal human experience of Christianity and most other religions.

I see it is pointless arguing with you about these things - and I knew that already. You can't possibly deny that this is all part of the Christian church today. If you do not agree with these aspects of the Christian Church then you have your own brand of Christianity and perhaps you should pronounce your own 'sermon on the mount' and start your own church - you would not be the first.

Christians will never depart from the fundamental tenets of their religion - and if you ask me, that is not just lunacy it is an absolute tragedy for the human race in terms of the development of knowledge and understanding of our collective reality as humans. Most of the rational thinkers I know would say it was lunacy to believe that the world was made in six days and that the fossil record was buried deliberately in a sinister attempt to deny the religious ‘account’ of the creation, yet all over the Christian world this is taught in schools - in some cases exclusively.

We could play semantic tennis all day Joe - are present day Nazis responsible for the deeds of the Nazis 60 years ago? yes they damn well are - it is the same ideology and given the chance and the support, they would do the same again. I find your closet anti-semitism very disturbing, but not surprising in the current world political view. Let me ask you a few questions Joe - and I will look forward to your reply soon too:

Do you think Israel has the right to exist as a state - especially in it’s current location?.

Do you believe the world was created in six days and deny Darwin’s theory as ‘evil-ution’?

How do you feel about abortion?

Do you think there should be women priests?

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination in the eyes of God as stated in the bible?

Do you believe as I heard a very prominent leader of the Church of England proclaim after 9/11 that as Christians ‘we should kiss the hands of those who killed our children’?

I see that with you as with most Christians in the past and present, the thin veneer of ‘kind regards’ and ‘the milk of human kindness’ soon drops away when there are challenges to your dogma - although you have resorted to insulting rhetoric sooner in the discussion than most Christians I have known I must say - but again, I’m not really surprised.

In the past the dismissive rhetoric against the ‘heathens’ or the contemporary scientific view of existence would have been reinforced with oppression in the case for example of Gallileo, or in the case of the crusades, the sword - and yes, I think that is a huge burden for adherents to any belief system to carry.

Sep 19, 2011, 18:10


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