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hito
hito
1745 posts

Fair question

cyberpainter wrote:
Hito, even though various people on the forum might sometimes be rude, unthinking, arrogant, even abusive, insane, etc etc, and sometimes people call them on it, sometimes they can't be bothered to do it, sometimes they don't want to get involved, or don't want to feed the troll, etc etc... One thing is clear, in this case, you did bait someone this time out of the blue because you say you don't like hypocrisy. He was being friendly to someone, and you thought it necessary to remind everyone that he said something in an entirely different thread that was unfriendly.

I ask you this. What if you did this to someone who was talking in a friendly manner to someone else at a party? Would you go up to them and remind them that one of them said something not too nice earlier? How would they react and would it be an appropriate thing to do at that time?


I think I said I didn't want to say anymore but ok. I will try to reply without provoking another deluge.

I think I answered this question in the sense that I said my link was not necessary but I felt like posting it because I didn't like Dara's duplicity. I don't like hypocrisy, I don't just "say" I don't like it. It was a choice I made because of my beliefs. And in the end, all I did was use his own words. Like those who parodied GW Bush as a president by simply putting his own words and actions together in a video reel, I didn't make anything up, I didn't lie, I didn't insult, I didn't label. By all means, it was a critique but it was a critique performed by the the one who was being critiqued. In many ways I regret it now because of the strong reaction and hurt that I assume lereostab now feels.

If you take the party situation I have a couple of points:

a) I may say something at a party if I saw a friend talking to someobody who had backstabbed them before they got there. I doubt that I would always do it but if I felt that the person was being insincere and publicly insulting them, I may.

b) the fact that I wouldn't say something at a party may mean that I am weaker publicly than I should be. The fact that we don't confront people who publicly insult our friends is perhaps a weakness rather than a strength. Perhaps the internet is better in that way

In the end, the party might not be a great analogy. But if you ask me whether I would pull GaryB up for doing the same thing (not that he ever would), the answer is yes (the same goes for GaryB2). I don't deny your preamble, "people on the forum might sometimes be rude and sometimes people call them on it." That is just what I did.

And now that I have answered your question, let me ask you this as a person I respect (I think our differences are in the past).

Why would you pull me up on this and ask these questions of me? Why don't you even ask Dara why he is acting the way he is? Why don't you suggest to him that his behaviour towards lereostab was duplicitous and insincere (it was only three days apart and look how nasty he is being again just to save face)? Why don't you suggest to him that his manner towards me is hyperbolic and generally revolting? And not just in this thread where his string of invectives has far outweighed any crime you could perceive that I have committed, but in all threads where my attempt to discuss matters in a calm and rational manner has been met with vitriolic denunciation of me as a person? Why don't you tell him that it is clear to all that he is the one having a tantrum and that I clearly am not? Why don't you suggest to him that he take that olive branch? Why don't you suggest to him that he discuss philosophical matters without resorting to personal abuse? Why not tell rael to keep out of it? Are these things not "clear"?

As you have chosen to "get involved", why did you choose to "get involved" in this way? Why criticise my crime and not his many crimes? Why me and not Dara?

I know you are reasonable so I would like to hear what you have to say.

Oct 26, 2011, 03:09


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Fair question

hito wrote:
Why would you pull me up on this and ask these questions of me? Why don't you even ask Dara why he is acting the way he is? Why don't you suggest to him that his behaviour towards lereostab was duplicitous and insincere (it was only three days apart and look how nasty he is being again just to save face)? Why don't you suggest to him that his manner towards me is hyperbolic and generally revolting? And not just in this thread where his string of invectives has far outweighed any crime you could perceive that I have committed, but in all threads where my attempt to discuss matters in a calm and rational manner has been met with vitriolic denunciation of me as a person? Why don't you tell him that it is clear to all that he is the one having a tantrum and that I clearly am not? Why don't you suggest to him that he take that olive branch? Why don't you suggest to him that he discuss philosophical matters without resorting to personal abuse? Why not tell rael to keep out of it? Are these things not "clear"?

As you have chosen to "get involved", why did you choose to "get involved" in this way? Why criticise my crime and not his many crimes? Why me and not Dara?

I know you are reasonable so I would like to hear what you have to say.


Why is it so important to you to have the support of others? have you no courage in your convictions? grow up and take a stand for yourself - it's a big and sometimes lonely world out there and you can't go crying into the corner of the playground every time someone criticises you if you want people to respect you. Once again you refuse to accept that you behaved aggressively - you did insult, you did label - you called me duplicitous and a hypocrite.

In my dictionary hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. How am I hypocritical in this context - I have said time and time again, I was being cynical about what I perceive to be irritating traits Joe has. I am still cynical when I reply to any of his posts - I still have the same point of view and if the same topics came up again with him I would respond in exactly the same way as I always have. That is not duplicitous - that is putting aside my opinions to be able to discuss other matters entirely - you should try it sometimes instead of all this tired nit picking bullshit.

It really gets to you when people don't kow-tow to your imbecilic pedantry - like a spoilt brat, you must always be right you can never accept anyone else's behaviour if it doesn't fit with your archaic idea of civility - well sod off - I don't give a toss about your bullshit standards - go and join a knitting club or something - whatever you do get off my back I am sick of you.

Oct 26, 2011, 03:54


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Fair question

hito wrote:
As you have chosen to "get involved", why did you choose to "get involved" in this way? Why criticise my crime and not his many crimes? Why me and not Dara?


You sound like a pathetic, whinging ten year old. I see that you do FINALLY admit that you have committed a 'crime' then - we should frame that and nail it to the wall - the great Hiro admits he is wrong - my god, that's a first...

Oct 26, 2011, 04:02


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Fair question

hiro wrote:
And now that I have answered your question, let me ask you this as a person I respect (I think our differences are in the past).


There you go again - making decisions for other people - don't you think it would be 'civil' to ASK Cyberpainter that? after all she was understandably worried by your freakishly sinister obsession with persuing her for responses to another of your ridiculously childish tantrums a while back, and there are echoes of your disturbing insistence again in what you have just written.

Oct 26, 2011, 04:10


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

hypocrite hiro!

Dara wrote:
In my dictionary hypocrisy is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


In reply to vodka5 you have shown a little of how sinister and nasty you can be when you feel like it - why don't you behave civily to him like your hero Garyb? after all we all know you are the exemplar of moral rectitude and proper positive behaviour especially towards those who obviously have some serious pshycological issues:

hito wrote:
You don't have to worry about that these days. Just log out and I guarantee you can log back in by just using your forum name.


Now I call that sinister and a dirty underhand trick to cause distress to another forum member.

Oct 26, 2011, 04:30


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Fair question

Dara wrote:
There you go again - making decisions for other people - don't you think it would be 'civil' to ASK Cyberpainter that? after all she was understandably worried by your freakishly sinister obsession with persuing her for responses to another of your ridiculously childish tantrums a while back, and there are echoes of your disturbing insistence again in what you have just written.


If I were her I would be very wary of you too:

http://www.stereolab.co.uk/forum/stereolab/topic/3226/threaded/36693/

Oct 26, 2011, 04:41


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Cheeso
Cheeso
642 posts

Honest answers

shito wrote:

Why would you pull me up on this and ask these questions of me?


Because you stirred the pot by getting involved in a peaceful, cordial exchange between Dara and Lereostab that had nothing to do with you. Because you were unable to control yourself from stirring shit up. Because you're so desperate for attention that you made a conversation between 2 other people all about you.

shito wrote:

Why don't you even ask Dara why he is acting the way he is?

Because it's obvious to everyone that he is merely reacting to your stupid, immature, selfish shit-stirring.

hiro wrote:

Why don't you suggest to him that his behaviour towards lereostab was duplicitous and insincere

Because lereostab can speak up for himself, he doesn't need you to be his knight in shining armor.

hiro wrote:

Why don't you suggest to him that his manner towards me is hyperbolic and generally revolting? ...Why don't you tell him that it is clear to all that he is the one having a tantrum and that I clearly am not?... Why criticise my crime and not his many crimes?


See the 2nd answer above.

shito wrote:

Why don't you suggest to him that he take that olive branch?

Because everyone sees through your petty, immature bullshit. We can all see that you are not offering an olive branch but just stirring the pot.

hiro wrote:

Why not tell rael to keep out of it?

How do you mean, shit-o? Like you kept out of things between Dara and Lereostab? Or how you kept out of things between CP and Velvetwater? Is that what you mean by "keep out of it," Dan...I mean, Shito?

hito wrote:

Why criticise my crime and not his many crimes? Why me and not Dara?

Like many here have suspected all along, you are nothing but an immature, hurt, little child. Grow the fuck up.

Oct 26, 2011, 04:42


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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5915 posts

Re: Fair question

Because you did the same thing to me. So some of the things that Dara is saying, I have felt inside.(Though I don't like the rudeness in his responses, I think he should tone it way down, and I have implored cheesie many times over the years to as well.) I've been appalled at myself really, that I would allow someone like you to affect me in any way. When you blindsided me back then with the hurtful attack, it affected me. I'm a human being with feelings. So though I don't like the way he's acting, I can relate.

In the party scenario... The thing to do would be to not confront your friends in that way while they're having a friendly interaction. It would be more mature and in the nature of a social situation and friendship that you would allow the other people to find their way with each other. If you had a close personal friend and took him aside to let him know of something the other said that was really damaging behind his back, it might be important to do, depending on the nature of the friendship, the subject, and whether it would hurt more than it would help. Having empathy for the people around you in your life, is more important than high, abstract ideals that might hurt others. Being mindful and caring is a bit higher ideal than fighting hypocrisy where ever it leads you. We are all imperfect, no one is above making mistakes, but humiliating others is generally a petty way to live, in my opinion.

Oct 26, 2011, 05:40


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Honest answers

Yep, that about sums it up nicely Cheeso. One of the many problems with this idiot is that he never listens and he will never change. He is a pathological narcissist and always will be. It is pointless arguing with him but he gets me so bloody angry sometimes, I am motivated to point out his hypocrisy and pettyness.

He has been bothering many people on here for a long time - so many people have recognised his supercilious arrogant pedantry and taken exception to it in the past. All he does is resort to blind childish tantrums. He can't admit that he is not above swearing and uncivil behavour himself in his mostly puerile posts - but as a symptom of his condition he is of course in denial.

Just a quick cursory trawl through the forum's archive proves the point - If I have to I will dredge up more than this one example - it's tedious I know, but I really am sick of his dumb headed hypocritical nonsense - look at how he treats Cyberpainter in this stupid thread he started long ago - even back then members like Harold were sick of his superciliousness and told him so:

http://www.stereolab.co.uk/forum/stereolab/topic/2979/flat/0/

It's a real shame this forum has been blighted by this idiot for so long.

Oct 26, 2011, 05:52


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Dara
Dara
905 posts

Re: Fair question

cyberpainter wrote:
I think he should tone it way down, and I have implored cheesie many times over the years to as well.)


I feel I have the right to self defence here - and in order to make that defence as strong as possible I will use all the power and resources at my disposal. I will tone it way down when he stops his bullshit. He has hurt and angered too many people on here and it is about time someone stood up to him - relentlessly and uncompromisingly, and that is what I intend to do.

I don't like it either - I hate being angry, but when I think of the shit he has got away with to date, it motivates me more and more to expose his trash for what it is. What he did to you was terrible - no one should be upset like that through the actions of someone posting on a music forum - it is plainly ridiculous and very creepy.

Oct 26, 2011, 06:46

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