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Can/will Obama win a second term?
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and0rod4
692 posts

Re: de fault

sorry about that. just used brain.
bad. *owned*

Dec 27, 2011, 05:56


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Psi-Phi
Psi-Phi
182 posts

Re: de fault

Psi-Phi wrote:
The Vote of each Voter by Right must be equal.


JS wrote:
Yes, all men are equals, One man one vote: that's the fair thing to do. If someone can't vote, it's unfair, or so they say.

Well, is it really fair when the voice of an educated and cultivated person is not worth more than the voice of an illiterate dropout?


Elections must be Fair and Legitimate to have any real Value. A safe and secure Ballot is an absolute necessity. Candidates and Voters alike must be qualified according to some set of rules that are recognizably fair and legitimate.

Citizenship would usually be a valid criterion, it seems to me. Literacy, less so. Depending on a multitude of civil and cultural circumstances, requirements should be established somewhere short of whether a person is 'educated' or 'cultivated' because who is going to be the authority to decide that?

Tyrants value the illusion of Democracy. Only one Party, one Candidate, and mandatory voting have been part of 'elections' in totalitarian nations for decades. Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin, all butchers with a 'mandate' from 'the people' to 'govern.'

In countries where elections are somewhat more 'legitimate' rigging the outcome is much more difficult, as may be demonstrated by comparing current efforts by Putin to, say, Khrushchev.

In the United States, stealing elections by establishing the 'rules' is a favorite sport amongst the Powers That Be. Disenfranchising certain groups and authorizing whole blocks of others is an effective tactic. Vote Farms, set up along the lines of patronage is another.

Gerrymandering, which is redrawing the lines of congressional districts to favor one party over another by ensuring a majority is also quite a sport. One district in Houston is famous known as "the corkscrew."

The most powerful method of stealing elections is the electronic voting machine. I believe it was Lenin - maybe Stalin - who remarked that the Voter was less important to the election outcome than the Vote Counter. Or something like that.

Dec 27, 2011, 15:47


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and0rod4
692 posts

Re: de fault

thats it, you cant argue with the powers that be.
an ideal world is really out of reach, it seems.
thety who have power to control, make all thought on the matter useless. its now worth voting, anyway imo.

I'd personally vote for Elvis, methinks he'd make a great world leader!

Dec 28, 2011, 07:05


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Some thoughts

Perhaps democracy is not such a good idea. Asking all people to vote about matters that require a PhD level of knowledge is objectively illogical. I am not saying that voting should be eliminated but I am asking people to consider what it means. The idea of a voting licence could logically lead to most people being eliminated from the electoral roll as few would have the necessary knowledge required to make informed decisions on the range of complex matters controlled by government.
So where does that leave us? I don't know

Dec 28, 2011, 12:58


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Psi-Phi
Psi-Phi
182 posts

Re: Some thoughts

hito wrote:
Perhaps democracy is not such a good idea. Asking all people to vote about matters that require a PhD level of knowledge is objectively illogical. I am not saying that voting should be eliminated but I am asking people to consider what it means. The idea of a voting licence could logically lead to most people being eliminated from the electoral roll as few would have the necessary knowledge required to make informed decisions on the range of complex matters controlled by government.
So where does that leave us? I don't know


Perceptive questions often suggest their own very best answers. I believe your statements certainly do. If I may, I'd like to move this discussion:

http://stereolab.co.uk/forum/stereolab/topic/4963/#6

Dec 29, 2011, 18:14


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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5922 posts

Re: Some thoughts

hito wrote:
Perhaps democracy is not such a good idea. Asking all people to vote about matters that require a PhD level of knowledge is objectively illogical. I am not saying that voting should be eliminated but I am asking people to consider what it means. The idea of a voting licence could logically lead to most people being eliminated from the electoral roll as few would have the necessary knowledge required to make informed decisions on the range of complex matters controlled by government.
So where does that leave us? I don't know



People are not all smart, including our elected representatives. But they do represent us now don't they? Highly educated or not, they represent our needs and opinions of the day. We don't vote on matters except for our state propositions, we generally vote for people. They have platforms which are fairly simple as they've been simplified for quick and easy understanding. We have plenty of representatives who are not all that bright. It's perhaps a tragedy, but only of humanity, not of the defects in democracy. The complex issues are worked on by the people behind the scenes, there are plenty with brains and knowledge who suss out the details. You think our congressmen pour over the details?

Dec 30, 2011, 04:19


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Some thoughts

CP People are not all smart, including our elected representatives.

That is my point. If you were going to invent a complex device such as a TV, would you rely on voters or politicians? No; experts

CP But they do represent us now don't they?

No. Not me. They represent powerful interests and follow an economic model. The represent the will of the people in so far as they don't wish to displease the majority. Government is basically a mix of economic expertise and popular thinking.

CP They have platforms which are fairly simple as they've been simplified for quick and easy understanding.

They have been simplified to appeal to swinging voters and to appeal to the uneducated.

CP It's perhaps a tragedy, but only of humanity, not of the defects in democracy.

It is a tragedy of democracy if democracy is chosen as your system of govt. I am not advocating other models but a dictatorship - for example - could overcome this problem.

CP The complex issues are worked on by the people behind the scenes, there are plenty with brains and knowledge who suss out the details.

Agreed. But they are not always listened to if their view is unpopular or displeases those who make financial contributions to a political party.

CP You think our congressmen pour over the details?

Sadly no. And yet they vote for or against laws they know little or nothing about. Take pollution as an example.

Dec 30, 2011, 09:26


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Psi-Phi
Psi-Phi
182 posts

Re: Can/will Obama win a second term?

American Presidents in Uniform


Aren't they Handsome?

Dec 30, 2011, 19:16


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cyberpainter
cyberpainter
5922 posts

Re: Can/will Obama win a second term?

Wow, that's pretty offensive.

Dec 31, 2011, 02:13


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Psi-Phi
Psi-Phi
182 posts

Re: Can/will Obama win a second term?

cyberpainter wrote:
Wow, that's pretty offensive.


I know! The photos are not shown in the correct chronological order of their respective administrations, and I think they could have found a better picture of Kennedy.

Dec 31, 2011, 03:38

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