DON'T USE PAYPAL

Paypay has $1300 of my money and will not give it to me until I produce documents that don't exist!

A letter sent to PayPal from me:


I would like to know what LEGAL RIGHT PayPal has for holding the funds in my account. I sold a used laptop for 750 pounds on ebay. PayPal put a freeze on my funds and asked me to verify my account. Although, I did not think PayPal could legally do this, I did the three things asked of me to verify my account. When this was complete, another freeze was put on my funds until I could give proof of shipping (registered mail receipts) and ownership (purchase invoices) of two items. I am not a business and I am not buying wholesale and selling retail. As I stated, I sold an old 7" collectible record that I had two of, and a laptop that I had owned for two years. I have no "invoices" for these items! I sent the 7" record via Royal Mail. I have no Registered mail receipt. I did supply PayPal with the registered mail receipt for the laptop. What LEGAL RIGHT does PayPal have to keep my money until I can prove that I owned these items? What legal right does PayPal have to keep my money until I produce "proof" that I sent the record? PayPal has kept my funds and put the burden of proof on me. Unless PayPal gives me MY MONEY in the next two days, I will be contacting BBC and CNN to tell my story. PayPal wants to be considered a bank or (as safe as a bank). If a bank froze a business' money until they could supply proof of shipping items they had sold, they would be on the front page of every paper in the country. I have supplied PayPal with every piece of personal information that would allow them to prosecute if I did not send items. PayPal has no reason or right, to freeze my funds.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL - 2nd email

You are the fourth PayPal employee to offer your apology. Thank you, but apologies are not helping me get my money.

You say that you carefully reviewed my case. You have missed several important facts.

Paypal - "The reason behind this documents or
information is, if you listed your items as new, these invoices will
protect you from any chargeback, dispute or unauthorised transaction cases
that might be filed against your account."

If you would have carefully reviewed the case, you would have seen that I sold an OLD record and an OLD laptop. I DO NOT HAVE THE REQUESTED DOCUMENTS! The verified paypal buyer already has the laptop, is happy, and has left me positive feedback on ebay. What LEGAL RIGHT does PayPal have to keep my money for this transaction?

You state that the REASON PayPal is requesting these documents is to PROTECT ME. Is this a joke! If I don't have the documents, and someone files a dispute, then I would lose. But THEY HAVE THE ITEMS, and are NOT filing a dispute. Why is the burden of proof on me? PayPal could contact the VERIFIED buyers directly if they wanted.

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND I AM CERTAIN, ILLEGAL.


PayPal - "For the meantime, please keep an
eye on your email so that you will be updated with the status of the
relevant department's review of this limitation case."

Translation: "Just wait a while and we might or might not give you your money"

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. BUT WILL MAKE FOR GOOD COPY ON THE BBC.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL

Notice the improper use of grammar and misspellings. The website has many broken links. And, my three telephone conversations with "customer support" were with people in India who were not very intelligent and had quite a lack of grasp on the English language.

This company is not secure. In their agreement, they basically state that if they become insolvent, all bets are off. Everyone loses any money they have in their accounts.

It is worse than the mafia.

Can you tell I am angry?

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL

That sucks!! I never keep much money in my account there. And I never use my bank account to pay for transactions. Only my credit card. I use their shopping cart on my website. I won't stop using paypal, but I appreciate the heads up about your difficulties.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL

Cyber,

As long as you are not selling big ticket items and transfer your funds regularly, I suppose you're alright. But it is like dealing with the mafia. You'll have no recourse if they ever steal from you.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL



It was probably a part of the same 'freeze'. Things like this make the blood boil so much that it clouds the smallest thing. You have done right to meet their three requests but keep any further comms as simple as possible, it's difficult, but conveying your anger, especially in detail, isn't actually going to help your situation.

Don't threaten any company with contentious things like going to the BBC, if you feel that it genuinely warrants such action then JUST DO IT in ANY situation.

Big companies have more solicitors than you can shake a stick at and the last thing to do is signal your intention as your 'case' will just be filtered to another department that will be obliged to treat the 'case' as then being a potentially contentious situation and that is then going to increase the length of time to resolve for you at, you don't want that.

Maintain all comms from now on in writing. This will help you to keep things simple, ensure that you register any letters with the post office. The arrival of your letters at PayPal with the relevant registration documentation requiring a signature, will assure PayPal of your intent. Ask that any phonecalls TO you be confirmed in writing, don't make any further calls yourself if you do, (recording them is pointless) make a note in a diary.

Asking what legal right PayPal have is just like asking about the Copyright issues on recorded music (as in some of the recent posts on the forum); it's a pointless exercise because a big company will ALWAYS find a legal right.

Keep it simple and if you want to resolve this quickly just sit back a bit now, difficult as hell, I know, but that's the best thing to do. It isn't actually your money yet and PayPal could really be protecting you from a situation that may have arisen from the buyer's side that you are best not being aware of. Chargebacks are a nightmare.



I hope that the documents supplied were copies, you do have copies of them yourself, don't you? It's not your money till it's your money, unfortunately.




Well, you're experienced enough to realise if you're being scammed, or not, so unfortunately you can bet that PayPal has a right somewhere in the small print of the 'agreement' between you and them and contesting that would cost you a lot of money, time and angst, not worth it. Wait for their next move it could be that they have uncovered a new scam (credit crunch and all), try to see it in the light that PayPal are actually looking out for your interests for some reason, in the meantime, some questions to answer to begin to cover yourself.

Have the Buyer's been in contact with you (but don't contact them)? Has feedback been left for you? Do you have any photos of yourself using the laptop? What other kind of evidence can you get that the items were yours (get it)?

That's it dude, sorry, this is as far as my input is going to go on this now, good luck, and take it slowly.

~8^)>

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL

Thanks for the input.

Both buyers have the items, emailed me that they are happy, and have left positive feedback.

Why would there be any other requirement?

Also, remember, the hold was put on the account in the first place because I received ?1200 (then ?1700) which I never received!

The buyers are Verified PayPal users. If PayPal wanted to make sure they got the items, PayPal has everything but their first born to contact them with.

Putting the burden of proof on me is just plain EVIL.

I agree with you that what I should do it sit and wait. But it feels more like adding vaseline so it doesn't hurt as much when they insert it.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL



OK, on a final note, you have the emails and the positive feedback but you don't really know how genuine they are, you don't really know if they are telling you one thing and PayPal another, do you?

There may have been a chargeback claim, there could be any number of problems. PayPal won't tell you the problem if it looks as though they, or you, can lose out. There are no personal feelings involved (although it may sometimes appear to be that way).

Try a tack of working with them, assure them that you are aware that they have a good policy and a sound record of keeping the interests of their members at heart.

To be truthful, putting posts entitled DONT USE PAYPAL on the forum here won't stop me using PayPal, your post is not harming PayPal, it's water off a duck's back. You really do have a passionate streak, don't you?

If you have valid questions with regards to amounts then put them in writing to the appropriate department requesting that they clarify their position, register the letter with the PO, make a paper trail, keep your questions short and clear, it should not contain more than two paragraphs on an A4 sheet. The more complex you make your explanations the more it will be filtered to 'professionals' that are 'qualified' to deal with potential threats to PayPal's reputation.

~8^)>

PS I've nothing to do with PayPal :-)

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL



Your hypothetical scenario is way off base.



They have been very clear with me. The original flag was due to a problem with their system.

The second flag was because of the first flag. i.e. Because the account had been flagged the first time, a high priced item triggered the second flag (requiring proof of ownership and shipping)



Funny.

Re: DON'T USE PAYPAL

I don't understand Paypal. It's like a relic that existed before websites had enough security to accept credit cards. I trust in Paypal like I trust in sorcery, or even Vonage for that matter.

Cybele