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s_lush_s
s_lush_s
7383 posts

Re: Atheism

A local atheist writer died the other day . He died of a stroke. He wrote a self aggrandizing soliloquy and his only offering for an epitaph "He was here; We knew it." Yeah, he made fun of people who believe in heaven in his statement.

I believe we experience another dimension yes, the body, compost for the earth, but, I've been pondering these things. Reincarnation, outer space,another dimension. I believe there are some people that become bionic and never die. It's true!
There's a reason that this heaven theory persists and that's because people have died, experienced the dimension and been resuscitated.

* an interesting footnote (no pun) the expression "for whom the bell tolls" does not signify death but resuscitation. Years ago, people were so afraid of being buried alive that there were "morgues" where attendants would tie bells to the toe of the "dead". So you'd lie there with a bunch of other stiffs for about a week and if your bells started ringing. Guess what? You had to pay the doctor! No, silly, you went home. True story.

And I believe in evolution and of course with microbiology we've been able to accumulate more data that isn't contrary to Darwin's theories. But my mind is open to other theories of evolution. Maybe we're aliens? Maybe we're robots. Hot hot robot

Jun 20, 2012, 19:06


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s_lush_s
s_lush_s
7383 posts

Re: Atheism

Mars Rover wrote:
and to quote my favorite philosopher:

"If a voice from the clouds suddenly addressed me, speaking my name in trombone tones, or some angel suddenly addressed me in an aura of blue flame came floating toward me...I think I would be more embarrassed than frightened --frightened by the vulgarity of such a display. That is what depresses me about the mysticism of Carlos Castaneda and his like: their poverty of imagination. As any honest magician knows, true magic inheres in the ordinary, the commonplace, the everyday, the mystery of the obvious. Only petty minds and trivial souls yearn for supernatural events, incapable of perceiving that everything --everything! --within and around them is pure miracle." Ed Abbey



That's not the Disney philosophy! %:)

Jun 20, 2012, 19:15


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s_lush_s
s_lush_s
7383 posts

Re: Atheism

s_lush_s wrote:
Mars Rover wrote:
and to quote my favorite philosopher:

"If a voice from the clouds suddenly addressed me, speaking my name in trombone tones, or some angel suddenly addressed me in an aura of blue flame came floating toward me...I think I would be more embarrassed than frightened --frightened by the vulgarity of such a display. That is what depresses me about the mysticism of Carlos Castaneda and his like: their poverty of imagination. As any honest magician knows, true magic inheres in the ordinary, the commonplace, the everyday, the mystery of the obvious. Only petty minds and trivial souls yearn for supernatural events, incapable of perceiving that everything --everything! --within and around them is pure miracle." Ed Abbey



That's not the Disney philosophy! %:)



I guess that is the Disney philosophy. Magic. Magic of every kind. Yearning for supernatural events like eternal life, how petty of me. I think Ed Abbey had "issues".

Jun 20, 2012, 19:22


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jauntymonty
jauntymonty
1623 posts

Re: Atheism

calapia wrote:
jauntymonty wrote:
Just to cut to the chase, when you die your are dead meat. There is no hereafter. The whole concept of God was to give hope to those who can't deal with death ...so rest easy, in death you go to another plane of life.

I'm sorry - and what is your proof of this? Please don't mistake me as religious, but if you are an atheist, and "believe" in what you say, and mock religious people for believing in a hereafter, what proof do YOU have that this is what happens after death? Isn't the disturbing truth that we don't know with any certainty what happens after death?


Scientific research proves their isn't treasure at the end of the rainbow. Refracted light in drops of moisture. We are left to form opinions about a god without such study. So, there you go. Acknowledged. I was inadvertently mocking as you say. Actually, I respect con opinions. It is a fucking miracle that we exist. Accident.

Jun 21, 2012, 05:11


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Mars Rover
Mars Rover
1337 posts

Re: Atheism

cyberpainter wrote:
Mars Rover wrote:
cyberpainter wrote:
Mars Rover wrote:
and to quote my favorite philosopher:

"If a voice from the clouds suddenly addressed me, speaking my name in trombone tones, or some angel suddenly addressed me in an aura of blue flame came floating toward me...I think I would be more embarrassed than frightened --frightened by the vulgarity of such a display. That is what depresses me about the mysticism of Carlos Castaneda and his like: their poverty of imagination. As any honest magician knows, true magic inheres in the ordinary, the commonplace, the everyday, the mystery of the obvious. Only petty minds and trivial souls yearn for supernatural events, incapable of perceiving that everything --everything! --within and around them is pure miracle." Ed Abbey



Being at one with nature is a miracle. However why can't imagination encompass more fanciful ideas as well as the ordinary natural world? I'm an agnostic, and I disagree with this quote in that way.


of course imagination can, but i think you're thinking of what he said in the wrong context. he's just taking a shot at the people who think of god in this cliche supernatural form. he was a fiction writer as well as a non fiction writer, so of course he believes in imagination.



I know much of religion seems cliche and full of superstition. But I actually was talking about god or spirituality in my response. The "what ifs" are pretty endless.


yeah, but doesn't it get a bit ridiculous at some point? for me its at the start, but ...meh.

Jun 21, 2012, 05:52


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Mars Rover
Mars Rover
1337 posts

Re: Atheism

Kazak wrote:
Mars Rover wrote:
i don't know that we need to "have" anything. i'm doing ok without it i think. everyone has something that motivates them. make your family and friends your religion. make your hobbies a cathartic release. i get lost in the woods and feel its better than any church. when i'm there i wonder why anyone needs to go to one. to each their own however.




I really didn't phrase that part of my post very well. I was about to scrap the whole thing, and then just thought, fuck it, and hit "Add Reply." What I was trying to get at was more like this: if one rejects theism, what does that make one? An atheist.


ah...gotcha

Jun 21, 2012, 05:52


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Atheism

Kazak wrote:
calapia wrote:
jauntymonty wrote:
Just to cut to the chase, when you die your are dead meat. There is no hereafter. The whole concept of God was to give hope to those who can't deal with death ...so rest easy, in death you go to another plane of life.

I'm sorry - and what is your proof of this? Please don't mistake me as religious, but if you are an atheist, and "believe" in what you say, and mock religious people for believing in a hereafter, what proof do YOU have that this is what happens after death? Isn't the disturbing truth that we don't know with any certainty what happens after death?



To me, the proof lies in understanding that the effect we call our conscience is the result of the material neural networks that reside in each of our respective brains. Once the neural networks that results in the effect we collectively call "Kazak" inevitably decays, what will produce and sustain my conscience?


Sounds like faith to me. I have heard many religious people use the same logic as yours. "What will produce and sustain my conscience but God?"

Jun 22, 2012, 06:38


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Atheism

Labhead wrote:
calapia wrote:
jauntymonty wrote:
Just to cut to the chase, when you die your are dead meat. There is no hereafter. The whole concept of God was to give hope to those who can't deal with death ...so rest easy, in death you go to another plane of life.

I'm sorry - and what is your proof of this? Please don't mistake me as religious, but if you are an atheist, and "believe" in what you say, and mock religious people for believing in a hereafter, what proof do YOU have that this is what happens after death? Isn't the disturbing truth that we don't know with any certainty what happens after death?


This is why I choose to be an "agnostic atheist". I realize that anything is possible and that we can't possibly know anything with 100% certainty, but at the same time, I see no reason to believe that there is an afterlife or any type of god that the various 'bible' types describe.


That is called "agnostic". To add atheist to this word is somewhat tautological.

Jun 22, 2012, 06:41


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Atheism

jauntymonty wrote:
calapia wrote:
jauntymonty wrote:
Just to cut to the chase, when you die your are dead meat. There is no hereafter. The whole concept of God was to give hope to those who can't deal with death ...so rest easy, in death you go to another plane of life.

I'm sorry - and what is your proof of this? Please don't mistake me as religious, but if you are an atheist, and "believe" in what you say, and mock religious people for believing in a hereafter, what proof do YOU have that this is what happens after death? Isn't the disturbing truth that we don't know with any certainty what happens after death?


Scientific research proves their isn't treasure at the end of the rainbow. Refracted light in drops of moisture. We are left to form opinions about a god without such study. So, there you go. Acknowledged. I was inadvertently mocking as you say. Actually, I respect con opinions. It is a fucking miracle that we exist. Accident.


Science doesn't prove there isn't treasure, it merely provides an alternate and more feasible answer. I cannot prove that there isn't a monster in my cupboard that disappears every time I look in there but I can use science to suggest that it is highly unlikely. There is no proof that there isn't a god.

Jun 22, 2012, 06:46


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hito
hito
1745 posts

Re: Atheism

The Greatest wrote:
Kazak wrote:
(Sorry, about the dupe thread, actually sort of wanted to discuss this...)

The problem is, theism doesn't exactly jive with evolution, yes? Well, hell, neither does non-geocentrism! If one loses theism, or never has it, what is one left with? But, it is!

(I, personally, do not think theism and religion are mutually exclusive.)


There are other ways of believing in God besides theism. One is called panentheism, and this is the way of believing that allows for evolution. It is the belief that people and the universe are in God and God is in them, but that God is also more than everything in the universe.

Sort of like when you take some ocean water and put it in a cup. The ocean is in the cup, but the cup does not contain the ocean.


Panteism is theism. It is not an alternative. Pantheism has no more validity than monotheism in that they both rely on superstition. Both pantheism and theism are perfectly compatible with evolution, just not Old Testament style fundamentalist Christianity.

Jun 22, 2012, 06:52

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