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Is Obama the Antichrist?
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Left Boob Oscillator
Left Boob Oscillator
1371 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Oo.oO wrote:
Yeah - fair enough.

This is great:

http://www.geocities.com/rebornempowered/priesthood/ch1.htm

Hebrews ch.5-7 deals with Melchizedek. A gentile, maybe, but he's never reffered to as a pagan.

Footnotes: I have some Star Wars figures in my house, a Mandalorian army no less. I don't worship them, good grief, I let my kids play with them.

The problem with idolatry is that it deflects man from trusting god. It places emphasis on matter, & obscures spiritual understanding. One analogy is this:

My son has a model of what he thinks I look like. This model is on his shelf. Every night before he goes to bed he brings this model down from his shelf in order to share his daily problems with it. He cries to it & hugs it. When I come into his room, & ask him if he wants me to read him a story, or listen to his day he completely ignores me & continues talking to the model. No matter what I do I can't get through to him - he has detached himself from me & speaks only to the model, seeking council from an inanimate object. So it is with all created matter. "God is spirit, & his followers must worship in spirit & truth".


Gentile and pagan can be synonymous.

I agree with what you are saying in principle. Another analogy would be that hallucinogens can be useful in the right setting, but not for children or people with mental disorders. Everything depends on context and what you know/how you deal with it. I don't think it's fair to say that because I have a statue of Mary in my garden (which I don't) that I go out and offer it tea and cake every day.

Mar 24, 2009, 18:05


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Left Boob Oscillator
Left Boob Oscillator
1371 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

And I think the idea of people praying "to" statues is a myth about Catholicism. If you see someone praying in front of a statue, it doesn't mean they are worshipping it.

Catholicism likes to include all of the senses in the experience of worship...taste from the bread and wine, sound from the chanting, smell from the incense, touch from the Rosary, seeing from the icons...It's a way of making the transcendent seem immanent.

Mar 24, 2009, 18:12


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Oo.oO
Oo.oO
22 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Hallucinogens... Hmmm... that's another story entirely. The jury's out on that I reckon. Albert Hofman had a pretty lengthy life after taking colossal amounts of the stuff, & experiments are still undertaken on humans to determine the effects upon the mind, by such organisations as The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, & the Beckley Foundation. Current studies suggest that it depends on what type of mental disorder one has.

Anyway... I think you're right. From a Hebrew perspective a Gentile was often synonymous with a Pagan. I would personally however, be careful about assuming that Melchizedek was a Pagan in the 'religious' sense of the word, because of who he was & the prophetic associations drawn upon between him & Yeshua Moshiach in the New Testament. The truth is, that we just don't know that much about him. The only thing I would say is that he was the King of Salem, which later became Jerusalem, & priest of God Most High. The Salem point in itself makes the claim of whether he was a gentile or a Jew ambiguous, simply because there was no distinction at this time as the Hebrew nation had not yet been established. Adam wasn't a Jew, Noah wasn't a Jew, Enoch wasn't a Jew, Abraham wasn't a Jew etc... that doesn't mean that they were religious pagans. That link I put up is very interesting.

My point about idolatry is exactly as you say. It is not the 'statue' itself that is a problem, but it's the attitude of the human toward it. I'm not qualified nor do I have any right to comment on the actions or attitudes of individual people.

Mar 25, 2009, 10:14


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Left Boob Oscillator
Left Boob Oscillator
1371 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

I'll check that site out later...I noticed that it is an "end times" site. I don't believe in end times. I believe in "world without end."

I don't think pagans worship matter as a general rule. Some of them might. I also think that Christ has saved everyone (or will save them). I'm a universalist.

Mar 25, 2009, 14:57


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Oo.oO
Oo.oO
22 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Fair enough - forget about the 'end times' bit, I dunno what's on the rest of the site to be honest. The Melchizedekian Priesthood bit is great though.

Mar 25, 2009, 15:36


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Left Boob Oscillator
Left Boob Oscillator
1371 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Cool..It's nice to have someone to talk religion with on here. As far as "matter," I'm not sure I really believe in it. I think the universe is mental.

Mar 25, 2009, 15:43


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Oo.oO
Oo.oO
22 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Yeah, & thank you. I try & remain open minded about these things, though I cannot pretend that they don't fascinate me which drives my study.

I wouldn't affiliate myself with any particularly established belief system to be honest. The complexities of the universe, & the human heart & mind alone, & all that is contained therein are far too astounding & open ended for me to feel that I can commit at present. I must admit that I've found Biblical Scripture to hold extremely profound truths that seem to transcend physical realities, & therein lies my intrigue. It requires contextual study though, in terms of history, culture, etc...

One of the things I found very interesting from an early age was the hostility between Jesus & the established religious institution of his day. He exposed them & opened them right up for what they were, & they hated him for it. That kind of thing is timeless & ongoing in my humble opinion.

There is definitely something that transcends our mainstream understanding. Something of a spiritual nature, which although we are very much a part of, we cannot seem to fully grasp in our present state.

The Universe is pretty mental, I agree ;) I've flirted with that philosphy, but I get stuck on the physical reality, & our senses. For example - if we had no ears, would sound exist? If I gash my arm, why does it hurt, & why can't I 'think' or 'imagine' it to heal?

Anyway - thanks again

Mar 25, 2009, 17:23


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Left Boob Oscillator
Left Boob Oscillator
1371 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Oo.oO wrote:
One of the things I found very interesting from an early age was the hostility between Jesus & the established religious institution of his day. He exposed them & opened them right up for what they were, & they hated him for it. That kind of thing is timeless & ongoing in my humble opinion.

There is definitely something that transcends our mainstream understanding. Something of a spiritual nature, which although we are very much a part of, we cannot seem to fully grasp in our present state.

The Universe is pretty mental, I agree ;) I've flirted with that philosphy, but I get stuck on the physical reality, & our senses. For example - if we had no ears, would sound exist? If I gash my arm, why does it hurt, & why can't I 'think' or 'imagine' it to heal?


Yeah, I agree on that. The story of Jesus versus the establishment is timeless and says something about human (or maybe animal) nature. I would find it very hard to ignore this story in my life, as it relates to the very core of my struggle to reach a higher consciousness in this world and stay there (which seems impossible)...sometimes I feel it is not me that is struggling, but other forces beyond me.

As far as gashing your arm, or having no ears, etc. Who says something that is essentially mental can't be sensorial? We tend to dissociate the mind and its thoughts from everything around us because of our erroneous concept of spirit/matter duality inhereted from Platonic thought. Have you ever read Blake's "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"? I recommend it. I tend to think that physical bodies are just slower, more unconscious mental vibrations and are therefore more dense or gross when compared to the more subtle, spiritual vibrations.

Mar 25, 2009, 19:35


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tiredlight
152 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Interesting...
Yeah I have run into folks that have used that moniker on Obama. Yet reading the litany isn't reassuring that some of that shit could happen.

But who said Christ as he's believed in today isn't the enemy...

Hmmm...
Run a search on the term Christofascist and see.

Mar 25, 2009, 22:57


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tiredlight
152 posts

Re: Is Obama the Antichrist?

Long story short...

If 'Christians' are the enemy...

So here we have a savior ?

No?

Mar 26, 2009, 21:22

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